This one did it twice. After that, Luke's knowledge in the force grew to such a level where he was probably more powerful than Sidious. Ok I agree with basically everything you said. Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader would be able to defeat Maul. @nishi99: Or a potential successor to the most powerful Sith to ever exist. 7/28/2020. And this is SoD/TCW Maul. Even Sidous was pushed by Maul. @i_like_swords: Scheming Mastermind is just a statement right now. Schlusswort1. Being way out of Aayla's league doesn't say much, since many characters are. Any good shoujo/romance manga’s to watch. I swear this is the 3rd time I debate this very subject this weak. ANH Vader, who is solidly below his RoTJ incarnation, has challeneged a doppleganger of TPM Maul(who we are discussing here). Even though Maul just held Mace back, not being instantly killed by being ganged up by the second strongest jedi and another knight proves he is high tier. Nobody is disputing that he wasn't going all out. Re: Luke Skywalker vs Darth Maul on May 6th 2019, 10:16 pm It's also worth noting that, alongside the comic stating Vader brings his "full strength and power" against Luke, it also notes that Vader's fighting "brutally, aggressively." Very close, however, Maul is far more experienced at this point and has a broader fighting style. Still confused by Trump's bleach suggestion? Luke Skywalker (* 19 VSY auf Polis Massa; † 34 NSY auf Ahch-To) war der Sohn von Senatorin Padmé Amidala und Anakin Skywalker. His best TK feat is holding up a AT-ST; Maul was dragging an entire Shuttle while hurried and injured. Er war der Zwillingsbruder von Prinzessin Leia Organa . Maul was the only one to land a hit, so he was technically winning, even though he would of lost eventually. @darthsamburger: Vader was having trouble with an old obi wan. T-Shirts, Poster, Sticker, Wohndeko und mehr zum Thema Darth Maul in hochwertiger Qualität von unabhängigen Künstlern und Designern aus aller Welt. But Luke was a more-than-proficient Lightsaber duelist, so I would say he could at least fend off the initial attack. If this were a badass contest though, Maul would win, hands down. 0. If this is ROTJ Luke I’d say maul would win in a very close fight. I said that was my opinion of how I would rank them in terms of skill and power. Get your answers by asking now. As for skills Luke was at least high Jedi Master level like his father in ROTS or stronger because he was trained one on one with Yoda to beat Vader and Sidious. The son of famous Jedi Knight Anakin Skywalker, he was left on Tatooine with his aunt and uncle after the fall of the Jedi Order. Others of his skill feats are competing with Celeste Morne(a Jedi capable of competing with Vader or Krayt) without getting any training from Yoda. Like I said, it's an even split between these two as far as dueling goes. Darth Maul was in his prime right before his death in episode 1. Who are both above Darth Vader (non angry). @i_like_swords: ....uh movie versions? Also in Daurth Maul Son of Dathomir Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Another Jedi at the same time and was winning. Nope, Sidious took Savage like a walk in the park and once Sidious started trying, the fight ended. Nah. If you were even paying half attention to the fight you will realize that Sidious was toying with Maul from the very beginning. Luke>Vader>Maul This also. Luke, by RotJ, isn't exactly matching TCW Maul in power either. Maul has proven to be a better duelist than vader. Luke would win. And Vader being on par with the Force with Sidious? RP-Story7. Yeah. He locked blades with Windu once and kicked Aayla and then fled. If anything Dooku was the scheming mastermind to secede and they can't just overwrite the canon. Maul was initially an assassin, Dooku was primarily a politician and placeholder. Luke is a 7 in saber combat due to matching vader. He kept his eyes inward, seeking reflection in his own bottomless core. He also beat Qui gon and obi wan at the same time. Join Yahoo Answers and get 100 points today. Indeed, a factual one from an out-of-universe source. Follow 928. Re: Valkorion vs Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious . At that point it was clear Vader wanted to kill Luke and keep Leia instead. Vader wasn't trying his hardest to kill him. TFU isn't a part of the new canon if that's what you're basing your opinion on. @alextheboss: You're doing God's work, mate. The kind you can't deny. If anything Maul has shown better force combat feats. (those are 2 numbers off of what i said if you don't remember). Hilarious how you use that example when you just tried to explain to me that the emotional state of the Skywalkers was the focal point for their respective victories. but that was only due to the fact he blitzed aayla. I definitely could not see Luke defeating Qui Gon Jin and Obi Wan at the same time. name a time Maul planned to do that over a long time period. you can even see Sidous is getting angry. Also based on canon feats Maul has better feats than Vader. He would've lost quite solidly if he stayed since Mace>Maul. Lord Vader did not mind waiting, though, nor was even aware of it. Jinn shouldn't be the 3rd best duelist of the Jedi in TPM. Since A New Hope Vader was described as a mere shadow of Anakin Skywalker, and he felt far greater levels of power during Return of the Jedi. Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor. 19 years later, he encountered former Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi(Under the alias "Ben Kenobi") and joined the Rebel Alliance to bring down the Galactic Empire. I definitely could not see Luke defeating Qui Gon Jin and Obi Wan at the same time. Even until the last moments, Sidious didn't go fully all out until the end. @wollfmyth209: (((LOL. No he hasn't. BAHAHAHAHA based on canon feats? But yeah, Sidious>Vader. 1. This is true for both our reality and the one that exists within the Star Wars universe. Nope. Alle Bestellungen sind Sonderanfertigungen und werden meist innerhalb von 24 Stunden versendet. But it was ultimately Maul's military genius that allowed Talzin's plan to succeed. And then, well you know what happened. Like I said, the novel represents a fight between them with Maul fighting at regular levels and Sidious going all out, whereas the episode represents what would happen if Maul was fighting at his absolute peak and if Sidious entertained a serious duel with him. Luke came into his Jedi Prime about 10 years after the movies. Dooku planned many times before with Asajj Ventress & Savage Opress to overthrow Sidious. LOL. Vader, angry or not, ain't matching Palpatine. If Return of the Jedi came out in 1999, Luke's skills would probably be well above Maul. But he defeated them while there were 3 or more at a time. This. Maul's face showed no reaction to speeding over Anakin, as his eyes were fixed on Qui-Gon. Here we go again. Einzigartige Darth Maul Sticker und Aufkleber Von Künstlern designt und verkauft Bis zu 50% Rabatt Für Laptop, Trinkflasche, Helm und Auto. Only at the end of the fight, like the very last second, did Sidious go all out. Fight takes place on Luke Skywalker is the main protagonist of the Star Wars original trilogy. @nishi99: Well, he already is one as per SW.com. This is Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker vs The Phantom Menace Darth Maul. on December 10th 2020, 6:31 am @HellfireUnit wrote:Why do you assume I meant Tenebrae? Even though Maul just held Mace back, not being instantly killed by being ganged up by the second strongest jedi and another knight proves he is high tier. You can either intelligently answer or not say anything, because even though it is my opinion if you would rank them much differently that means you don't know what you are talking about since at most I'm 2 numbers off on something. What feats does ROJ Luke have that put him above Maul, Maul: Lightsaber: 9 Force: 7 (clone wars) 8. I think it would be like Qui Gon vs Maul. Dave Filoni said that the entire fight Sidious was enjoying himself and playing around. incursion2 . It is a comic so it only showed one panel of them fighting but that is all you can expect form a comic. I don't see why not. Vorwort2. How do you think about the answers? @nishi99: Luke hadn't realized his potential by this point, though, but sure it's there and we do see glimpses of it. I used to think low of Marek, but after some re-reading of his feats in the books, I realized my mistake. Without a doubt, Luke Skywalker is the most famous Jedi of all time. He only lost due to being tired and off guard. because even though it is my opinion if you would rank them much differently. It's a feat very few other duelists would be capable of even with the same aids given to Maul. People seem to be picking Maul just because his fighting looked cooler.. Yeah right, I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified to make such claims, than you are, tbh. sith orden.png maul.jpg LUKE SKYWALKER GEGEN DARTH MAULTAUSCHEN Inhaltsverzeichnis: 1. He has no feats above TPM Maul in skill, hence why I said this can go either way in my original post. Maul ragdolling obi wan in the clone wars proves he is at least a 7 in the force unless you think kenobi is a weakling. Sidious was playing with Maul the entire fight. @wollfmyth209: I just re-watched the Maul vs Sidous fight and Maul matched sidous for exactly 20 seconds, even landing a kick on him. And a result was a stalemate until Luke jumped Vader and attacked while amped by rage. maul isn't a 6 in lightsaber combat. Actor Elliot Page files for divorce from Emma Portner, 30-year Wall Street veteran says buyer beware, State tries to ditch stockpile of Trump-touted drug, Beloved NBA TV reporter Sekou Smith dies at 48, Carmaker will give away $2M if this happens in Super Bowl, Sore loser? And I wouldn't say Luke is more skilled either. The other Jedi was Aayla Secura, and Maul was not winning. Warum ich Luke abgegebe6. Sidious spanked him, so that example is utter crap. Scans? Because we know you hold SWTOR characters inferior to TPM Maul… @crushyourenemies: If you paid any attention to what I was saying you would know that I already knew sidious started out toying with maul. He felt engorged with this power, it surged like black fire, demon electrons looking for ground...but he would wait. After Savage died Maul fought sidous evenly for about 30 seconds and even pushed him back. Both variations of him are the strongest beings with the force and can use and manipulate it with ease. As someone indicated to me some time ago; the novelisation of the final fight is how the fight'd play out if Sidious was going all out from the get-go and Maul was fighting on normal levels. Before that though, sure, he was enjoying himself. His feats in the clone wars put him at equals with ROS Kenobi and Anakin. @wollfmyth209: Ok I agree with basically everything you said. @playa1: What suggests TFU is Vader's prime? Both trying to convert each other to their own sides and both not trying to kill the other. During that time, Sidious would take on two apprentices, Darth Maul and Tyranus, before setting his eyes on young Anakin Skywalker. I don't think Maul would stomp Luke. During RoTJ, he improved greatly. Darth Vader (Anakin Skywalker) was a male human-cyborg Dark Lord of the Sith and the third and final apprentice of Darth Sidious, who first appeared in the Star Wars original trilogy, and later in the prequel trilogy. A college coach turning down money? Assuming this is the case when they fight, the initial edge goes to Maul. ..and didn't even put those plans into action, much less come close to succeeding. And he didn't defeat him, he stalemated him. Sidious wasn't holding back in terms of lightsaber combat, just the force. After Savage died Maul fought sidous evenly for about 30 seconds and even pushed him back. Still have questions? And I haven't read enough of Qui-Gon to know if he was a better Jedi than Luke. Their respective feats mark them as on par. © 2021 GAMESPOT, A RED VENTURES COMPANY. I think it would be like Qui Gon vs Maul. It took two Jedi in the movie to hold Maul off, though Qui-Gon did a credible job on Tatooine. I meant that he was winding against windu and aayla not sidious. Maul at least showed he was way of of Aayla's league, not to mention he dodge a missle that Mace couldn't. Beide wurden nach der Geburt getrennt aufgezogen, damit ihr Vater, der zu dieser Zeit bereits der dunkle Sith-Lord Darth Vader war, nichts von ihnen erfahren konnte und sie später nicht suchen würde. @i_like_swords: Haha alright good point, however it's not like Maul had Chosen One potential or was more then an assassin in Sidious's eyes. It is ridiculous to say Luke who only had a couple weeks of training could defeat one of the deadliest sith of all times who had over 15 years of intense sith training. So that means RoTJ Vader is gonna be at least as good a duelist as Maul. Maul isn't a 9. He locked blades with Windu once and kicked Aayla and then fled. Lulz. Phantom menace kenobi out skilled maul. Vader would be a 7 in saber combat due to lack of feats, but he is that high due to the fact he can easily beat an average jedi who would be a 5 or 6. Luke is more skilled than Jinn by a good amount. Vader is a 9 in force for obvious reasons. Darth maul vs Luke skywalker - Tippen sie 2 Stichwörter une tippen sie auf die Taste Fight. Maul, at the time of The Phantom Menace, has no Force feats above or on par with Luke's feats of deflecting objects sent at him by Vader in one of their duels, dominating the mind of a Dragon Snake, finding all the bombs and rigged mechanics in Cloud City and utterly destroying them, etc. Forum Posts. And I mean, it's not as if Maul was trained from infancy by Darth Sidious or anything along those lines. While I agree that Anakin>Vader, it should be noted that the Vader who was having trouble with Old Ben was solidly below the one in RoTJ. Surviving the intial assault would be the issue. In Shadow Conspiracy Maul wasn't dual-wielding and wasn't nearly as rage-enhanced as he was in the episode. When Vader goes beast mode he could match sidious for a short amount of time, but of course he would never win. He was winning against Aayla and held off Mace. Even Sidous was pushed by Maul. Maul: Maul > Tenebrae? He had them already pinned against the wall and LET THEM GO FREE. Sidious is now meant to have trained Maul to be a "scheming mastermind" who was going to someday take over for him if need be. only in the last 20 seconds when maul is angry does sidious stop messing around. Maul should be a tier 8 duelist, and a tier 6 or 7 Force user if TPM. So IF he could survive the initial assault, Luke would win. Level Six. Anyways, he beat average Jedi, yes. @noah_ouellette: What movie feats does Luke have? I would say Luke is about equal with Qui gon. There would be seemingly no reason for Maul to want to hit Anakin, since neither he nor his master, Darth Sidious, knew yet that the child was the Chosen One. Also based on canon feats Maul has better feats than Vader. For it was an honor, and a noble activity, to kneel at his ruler's feet. If you mean solid as in, clear, then I'd agree, but if you're referring to the degree by which Mace wins I disagree. Not sure if you can justify Sidious quite "playing with" Maul after Savage's death. Power, that is Force, is in Luke's corner. Vader is obviously stronger in the force, but he has never shown anything on Maul's level. ? Maul at full power would be a better fight. Maul being a better duelist than Vader? Luke was actually the one holding back through the whole encounter. After converting Anakin to his cause as Darth Vader, the two purged the Jedi into nigh extinction as they ruled the Galaxy from their Empire. Even in those last 20 seconds. While Darth Vader vs Maul would be slightly more difficult for Skywalker due to his slowed movements and Maul's quickstep, Vader would easily be able to halt Maul with a simple force choke, rendering him useless. And an untrained Luke kept up with Celeste Morne's speed, and matched Vader's strength, so Maul's physical edge shouldn't impact much on the battle. Vader isn't on par with sidous with the force, but that is only due to lack of knowledge of the force and his lost potential. He was trying to force Luke to give into his anger, and he knew Luke wasn't a push over. Or for another perspective, the time it took for Dooku to dispatch Tiplee. Qui gon was the 3rd best duelest in the order. HellfireUnit. @i_like_swords: Or the son of a guy who was fathered by the Force itself. Vader is the most effective jedi killer in the SW universe what are you talking about? The dude was trained by Yoda and Vader said his skills were complete. Also in Daurth Maul Son of Dathomir Darth Maul fights Mace Windu and Another Jedi at the same time and was winning. He was constantly trying to redeem his father with is words until he pissed Luke off with the comment of her sister. What was the last good cartoon Cartoon Network made? Vorwort: Guten Tag, meine werten… Why do you assume I meant Tenebrae? Luke as of RoTJ would also get blitzed, ragdolled, or spanked by Sidious as well. Eh. That combined with a Force edge is enough to counteract Luke's innate adaptability, IMO. That just means ANH Vader is good, and by ESB he would've improved drastically in skill. He has no feats or accolades that place him far above their mark at all. Vader should also be 8. like i said i'm no more than 2 points off. Warum ICH Maul werden sollte8. Marek's pretty damn high up my list and Vader did pretty damn well against him. It is obvious they were both past there prime. He would've lost quite solidly if he stayed since Mace>Maul. Vader was having trouble with an old obi wan. Ehhhh....do not want, Maul NEVER struck me as any type of mastermind, always assassin/warrior. And yeah, Mace>Maul. If we took them at their primes, Luke wins 8/10 times, ROTJ vs Rebels Maul wins 6/10, anything before ROTJ Maul wins 10/10 times. Both Vader and Luke were holding back a good degree the entire fight. If this is ROTJ Luke I’d say maul would win in a very close fight. Talzin was the mastermind. Because when Sidious actually did get serious, he moved so fast Maul saw "countless blades". He's also noticeably stronger tactically. Maul was at least a 8 in saber combat. Not to mention in the old EU a clone of Maul almost beat Vader, and he would of died there if he didn't get medical attention. He's not several echelons above Maul; that's preposterous. Yeah, this fight can basically go either way. So that is irrelevant. Ugh. In lightsaber combat Vader would lose to ROS Anikan. Darth Maul vs Luke Skywalker Mo_Ali. I'm not even sure if a rage amped Vader can be in the same tier as Sidious in Force powers. First he dodged one attack, then another, then Sidious went all out and basically speedblitzed him:))). However, Maul has the solid physical edge and neither use the Force in combat much. After the former returned from exile he began being written as a mastermind (see The Sith Hunters, Death Sentence, SW.com and really any source from that time period). Dooku was more the former. Not to mention he's casually bested the likes of Celeste Morne, and held an edge over Starkiller from TFU 2, who equals Galen in saber combat and is thus capable of beating Jedi like Kazdan or Kota and holding off Jedi like Shaak Ti. Seahawks OT accused of assault, Redditor bets on GameStop to pay off student loans, Amanda Gorman dishes on Obamas’ inauguration chat. @crushyourenemies: Vader was trying to push Luke. So much bad logic going on here I don't know who to call out first. @i_like_swords: I saw scheming mastermind on his google profile, which he kind of was in TCW, but not by much. First he dodged one attack, then another, then Sidious went all out and basically speedblitzed him: Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Wiki Points. Luke. Vader and Luke aren't a 4 or 10 in lightsaber combat. But Luke is a better Jedi, more proficient in the Force and more creative in its use. @crushyourenemies: Vader was trying to push Luke. The fight looks shorter than it is due to the panels being cut, but Maul and Mace didn't clash blades once in the time it took Aayla to fall to her feet and then stand back up and engage. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Oh right, zero. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor. lol A little bit of research always helps people. His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. Why were the reporters gushinig ga-ga over every aspect of the Inauguration from images, Bernie's gloves to the shoes of Kamala Harris? Luke doesn't need feats because Maul is already by design far inferior. Your argument is that even post-Savage's death, Sidious was playing with Maul. RoTJ Luke's skill feats are on par, or slightly above Maul's. Vader is obviously stronger in the force, but he has never shown anything on Maul's level. on December 10th 2020, 5:28 am. Der Gewinner ist der die beste Sicht zu Google hat. Sidious also believed vader would surpass him by quite a bit especially since he has a higher mediclorian count. Potential usually is irrelevant. Luke matching Vader places him as a comfortable 8. Luke's Force edge, while by a good degree, will be negligable given his tendencies. It is ridiculous to say Luke who only had a couple weeks of training could defeat one of the deadliest sith of all times who had over 15 years of intense sith training. STAR WARS VERSUS is BACK! Because when Sidious actually did get serious, he moved so fast Maul saw "countless blades". Sidious was playing with Maul the entire fight. He was holding back. Please show me Vader doing something in the new canon that puts him above Maul. If TCW/SOD, he's an 8. you can even see Sidous is getting angry. Continue. Schilling wants to be taken off HOF ballot. If potential did count, Anakin would be better than Yoda. Vader during and before ANH was stated a shadow of his former self. In the episode he disarmed him handily, in the novel he blitzed him. Dooku failing to convince Obi-Wan that the Sith had invaded the senate when they actually had just shows that Dooku is terrible at telling the truth, bro. The fact that Luke took down the greatest jedi killer in the canon is proof enough that he is several echelons above him. Maul was out dueling Qui gon and Obi wan at the same time. Darth Maul was in his prime right before his death in episode 1. Online-Zeiten5. That is, if we take the Expanded Universe into account. @luckystrike:How can you not justify Maul winning? We're talking about TPM Maul here so this discussion is basically irrelevant to the thread. I'm essentially saying that because Maul's Force Rage took him higher and Sidious wasn't trying to blitz them, they had an opportunity to compete in terms of skill; Maul was still losing but he held his own and even landed a kick, and then Sidious overpowered him with sheer strength. Of course vader lost his potential when he was put into the suite, but he should still be able to hold his own if amped. Thus 7 is too low. @nishi99: True. You can either intelligently answer or not say anything. In Shadow Consiparcy, Sidious blitzed Maul and disarmed him as soon as he actually went serious. This is our first movie, so please, tell us what to do better and please NO RUDE COMMENTS! Anyways, it's not speculation. He's much more aggressive, and in my opinion he's faster. ANH Vader losing to a Maul doppleganger means nothing. Even until the last moments, Sidious didn't go fully all out until the end. So there you have it. Luke has better force feats, maul has force pushed kenobi like four feet. Dooku schemed behind Sidious's back by telling Obi Wan about him and trying to get Obi Wan to be his apprentice. Maul winning is lolworthy. I also agree that Mace>Maul though, but it would be a good fight. MORALS ON FOR EACH ROUND.ROUND 1ROTJ Luke vs TPM MaulForce, Sabers, All OutROUND 2ROTJ Luke vs SoD MaulForce, Sabers, All OutROUND 3Dark Empire Luke v Because Luke's potential is greater than Anakin's, so he progressed quite quickly. In the Mace vs Maul fight, Maul wasn't scared and said, finally a fair fight. 7/28/2020. A circumstantial victory. 2. Maul and Savage landing hits means nothing since Sidious effortlessly dodged all of their other attacks and wasn't even phased by those attacks. Re: Valkorion vs Luke Skywalker and Darth Sidious . Easily whooped Opress and then made Maul beg like a little b*(*). Maul has much more experience as a duelist. Maul has much more experience as a duelist. If I ever need a good laugh, I'm glad I can always come back to this thread. Blade locking with Mace a few times and kicking Aayla's impressive. I gave him an 8 in the force due to his potential, but he hasn't reached it yet. that means you don't know what you are talking about since at most I'm 2 numbers off on something. Well actually, it kind of is. He was trying to force Luke to give into his anger, and he knew Luke wasn't a push over. Standard gear for both and they are in-character. I'd argue that's probably Saesee Tiin. The other Jedi was Aayla Secura, and Maul was not winning. Scheming Mastermind is just a statement right now. You can sign in to vote the answer. He, while amped by rage, competed with a Sidious who wasn't even trying, and he's bested Jinn and Kenobi by separating the two from each other and taking them out one at a time. ROTJ luke out skills kenobi. ANAKIN VS DARTH MAUL Star Wars Battlefront 2 DLC Heroes Battle! Followers ... Darth Maul baby shakes, Luke's best feats in canon are trash atm. In the end, I'd have to say Skywalker would win. He was mocking them BOTH through the whole fight. I'd give a shout to the time he deposed the current Mandalore and simultaneously united the entirety of the criminal underground with enough efficiency to engage in full scale war with the CIS, capture Count Dooku and General Grievous and have them dead to rights, and force Sidious himself to confront Maul and Talzin personally on Dathomir. In Shadow Consiparcy, Sidious blitzed Maul and disarmed him as soon as he actually went serious. After that it was over. If Luke Skywalker met face-to-face with Darth Maul on the battlefront, who would come out on top? Maul has that physical edge and training that wins him the fight. If Sidious did go all out, he would pretty much blitz Maul. 4 months ago. After the fall of the empire, he would go on to establish the New Jedi Order and eventually serve as its Grand Master. The force doesn't come into play here since Luke doesn't use it in combat. @i_like_swords: Hows that make Maul a mastermind? Husband honors wife killed in crash with Kobe, 'Wow, you're alive?' And he stomped Maul. Think you're exaggerating the gap between the two if you think Mace takes a "solid" victory. Maul has to be about a 9 in lightsaber combat do to matching sidious for an extended amount of time when sidious could kill masters like kit fisto in seconds. Dooku planned many times before with Asajj Ventress & Savage Opress to overthrow Sidious, name a time Maul planned to do that over a long time period . Sidious showed no signs of holding back in those last 20 seconds, stop speculating. But he has stalemated RoTJ Vader. Obviously the numbers don't really mean anything but I put them to help people see why I'm saying what I'm saying. In lightsaber combat Vader would lose to ROS Anikan. Maul winning is lolworthy. @dccomicsrule2011: Actually they do have feats backing them up. So that's why I said it can go either way. And I'm telling you that they're way off, in my honest opinion. So RoTJ Luke is about his equal in dueling skill. Luke doesn't have any strength feats exceeding Maul and I'd like to say visa versa, so that shouldn't matter. It's not speculation when multiple sources actually confirm him. And he stomped Maul. Finding it difficult to believe Dooku is intended to be the scheming mastermind when Maul is the one who captured the former and delivered him to Mother Talzin on a plate. Anakin From Episode 2 VS Darth Maul From Episode 1Both are armed only with their own Lighsabers. The assassin thing used to be the case (albeit a very, very capable assassin at that), but recently SW.com and some creator commentary has overwritten that; Sidious is now meant to have trained Maul to be a "scheming mastermind" who was going to someday take over for him if need be. @crushyourenemies: You know all of the previous EU has been thrown out. Sidious also believed vader would surpass him by quite a bit especially since he has a higher mediclorian count. It is obvious they were both past there prime. (Star Wars) Why Storm Trooper's equipment sucks? Of course vader lost his potential when he was put into the suite, but he should still be able to hold his own if amped. I don't think Maul would stomp Luke. @wollfmyth209: Sidious showed no signs of holding back in those last 20 seconds, stop speculating. Vader and Luke are not two numbers below Maul as a duelist - that is the epitome of ridiculous. He was a wuss, then. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.